Friday, October 11, 2013

#017 Was Sage Agastya just in cursing King Indradyumna?

Book 08, Chapter 004, Verse 009. or 8.4.9.
yadrcchayA tatra mahA-yaSA munihi
samAgamat Sishya-gaNaih pariSritah
ta vIkṣya tUshNIm akria ArhaNAdikam
rahasy upAsInam riShIs cukOpa ha.
Book 08, Chapter 004, Verse 010. or 8.4.10.
tasmA imam SApam adAd asAdhur
ayam durAtmAkrita- buddhir adya
viprAvamantA viSatAm tamisram
yathA gajah stabdha-matih sa eva

Context and gist:
This is a very famous and popular story of "gajEndra mOksham (Liberation of the King of Elephants)". indradyumna was a human king. agastya was a very celebrated sage.

Very celebrated Sage agastya, accompanied by his entourage of disciples, arrived when king indradyumna was in a state of ecstasy, immersed in meditation (of Supreme Soul), in a secluded spot. indradyumna could not receive the sage properly with customary befitting etiquette, protocol and reception.

Angry agastya, hence, cursed indradyumna to be born as an elephant possessing blunt intelligence (stabdha-matih) amidst darkness of ignorance (tamisram).

Feelings of ybrao a donkey, without malice to anybody
Sages, accordance to scriptures, should possess great endurance and tolerance. Here agastya was too irritable and volatile. He was too hasty in cursing indradyumna.

agastya should have recognised that indradyumna was not inebriated or engaged in some other sensuous activity. He was engaged in contemplating on God.

agastya forgot that he had gone to indradyumna's place, uninvited and without advance intimation. Had agastya informed indradyumna in advance, he would have probably received agastya with greater honors and might have even arranged a feast, followed by a joint meditation campaign.

One can always say that agastya wanted to help indradyumna by cursing him to be an elephant, so that indradyumna after being caught by the cruel crocodile, would pray Lord vishNu with greater intensity and attain him very fast, which would have otherwise taken several births and rebirths, and several ages.

We can also compare the curse given by Sage agastya to king indradyumna, to the curse given by Sage dUrvAsa to king ambarIsha. Lord VishNu immediately rescued his devotee ambarIsha by sending his discus , without the need of ambarIsha waiting for ages. ambarIsha had no need to pray vishNu in a pathetic condition and tone. It is not clear, why vishNu didn't send his discus to chase agastya. Somehow, Lord vishNu ignored agastya, without punishing him for unreasonably, haughtily cursing indradyumna.

Friday, August 16, 2013

#016 Where is vidarbha? Where is dvAraka?

What I am doing at present (2013-Aug.). Available at this link: click or click


The protagonists of mahAbhAgavata are Lord VishNu and Goddess Lakshmi. The theme of mahAbhAgavata revolves around the ten incarnations on Earth, which VishNu adorned, to protect demiGods from demons. Among these ten incarnations, incarnation Nos. 6 to 10 (paraSu rAma to kalki) have human form. So far, nine incarnations have taken place, according to scriptures. The tenth incarnation, kalki is yet to come.

Among the No.6 to No.9 incarnations, paraSurAma was subjugated and sidelined after dasaratha rAma's marriage with SIta. So much so, most temples of rAma, working in India today, pertain to daSaratha rAmA, and whenever we refer to the word rAma without prefixing it with daSaratha or paraSu (axe-carrying), people take it as referring to daSaratha rAma (also known as kOdanDa rAma (rAma wielding the kOdanDa bow).

Even between the two incarnations (daSaratha) rAma and krishNa, mahAbhagavata gives greater prominence to krishNa (also known by several names like gOvinda, nArAyaNa, vAsudEva et al). A great part of the 10th canto of mahAbhAgavata depicts krishNas glories and victories.

If krishNa is Lord vishNu, his first wife rukmiNi is regarded as the incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi. rukmiNi was the princess of vidarbha kingdom. vidarbha is, now, geographically in mahArAshTra State of India. vidarbha's latitude is 20°N circa. vidarbha's longitude is 79°E, approx. nAgpur, is at present, the central city of vidarbha.

krishNa's abode is dvAraka (also spelt dwArka). krishNa was said to have shifted his city from Central India to Arabian Sea-side dvAraka, to overcome repeated invasions from magadha jarAsandha. dvAraka's approx. latitude is 23°N. Its longitude is 69°E.

Arial distance between nAgpur and dvAraka is approx. 690 miles or 1100 kms. or 600 Nautical miles. Modern Road distance between dvAraka and nAgpur is approx. 1400km. Rail distance may range between 1100 km. to 1400 km. approx. These distances are very important, as you will see from the following discussion.

According to mahAbhAgavata, rukmiNi loved krishNa and longed to marry him. But her brother rukmi insisted that she should marry his friend and cEdi ruler SiSupAla. He imposed his dictat on the aged king and rukmiNi's father bhIshmaka.

Unable to bear this forced marriage, rukmiNi sent a priest by name agnidyOtana (mahAbhAgavata does not mention this name).
vyAsa's mahAbhAgavata. Volume 10 (skandha 10). Chapter 52. Verse 26.

tad avetyAsitApAngI  vaidarbhI durmanA bhriSam vicintyAptam dvijam kancit  krishNAya prAhiNOd drutam.

rukmini understood the plan. She promptly sent a trusted brAhmin to krishNa.
vyAsa's mahAbhAgavata. Volume 10 (skandha 10). Chapter 52. Verse 26.

dvArakAm sa samabhyetya  pratIhAraih praveSitah apaAyad Adyam purusham  AsInam kAncanAsanE.

The Priest entered dvAraka. Janitors presented him before KrishNa. RukmiNi's emissary found krishNa on a throne of gold.

According to mahAbhAgavata, dvAraka can be reached only by crossing an IMPASSABLE SEA. See this verse:
krishNa was asking the priest.
Vol. 10. Chapter 52. Verse 35.
yatas tvam Agato durgam  nistIryEha yad-icchayA sarvaṁ no brUhh- aguhyam cEt  kim kAryam karavAma tE.

Gist Wherefrom have you come, crossing impassable (nistIryEha) Sea. For what purpose? Kindly reveal, if it is not a secret. What can we do for you?

Verse 41 first line, ibid. Svo bhAvini tvam ajitodvahane vidarbhAn

Here rukmiNi's letter said that her marriage was scheduled for the next day.
Vol.10, Chapter 53, verse 5. sa cASvaih Saibya-sugrIva-  meghapuṣhpa-balAhakaiḥ yuktam ratham upAnIya  tasthau prAnjalir agrataha.

gist sa (=he, dAruka krishNa's charioteer) brought a 4-horse-carriage. Saibya, sugrIva, meghapushpa, balAhaka were the names of the horses.
Volume 10, chapter 53, verse 6 Aruhya syandanam Saurir  dvijam Aropya tUrṇa-gaiḥ AnartAd Eka-rAtrEṇa  vidarbhAn Agamad dhayaiḥ.

Sauri here means krishNa. AnartAd here means from the place Anarta. Eka-rAtrEna indicates, that krishNa and the brAhmin completed the journey in one night.
personal opinions of ybrao a donkey not intended to be imposed on others.

Many ancient Indian books tend to move episodes and incidents at supersonic speed and drag on at snail's speed. Owing to this, we sometimes, miss essential things. We, sometimes, find reading tedious. This criticism can also apply to my posts at this blog. In this instance of rukmini's emissary priest journeying and covering a distance of nearly 1400 km. climbing and unclimbing hills and dales, penetrating into and emerging out of forests, wading through rivers and streams, how many days he would have spent? There was the risk of wayside-robbers, if at all there was a path. Now, in this vyAsa mahAbhAgavata the priest nearly hops the 1400 kms. from verse No. 25 to verse 26. vyAsa could have devoted at least one verse to describe the travails of the learned brAhmin agnidyOtana.

We have a film by name srIkrishNa pAnDavIyam in my mother tongue telugu language, produced and directed by late N.T. rAmA rAo.
link to wedding to rukmini rukmini-kalyANam Youtube video.

The film shows the priest singing a melodious song, jogging along seashore (presumably Arabian Sea), though nothing is mentioned about his penetrating through forests of dEvgiri (aurangAbad) or nAsik or khanDwa of mahArAshTra.

vyAsa's mahAbhArata does not mention the approximate time taken by the BrAhmin to reach dvAraka. Not even a single word about, how the brAhmin crossed the impassable Sea.

Verse 10/53/005 above shows that krishNa travelled from dvAraka to vidarbha by horse-carriage. We may have to presume that he crossed the impassable Sea, using boats.

Our ancient scriptures are intended for full-pledged devotees. Hence, they may not take into account, practicalities and pragmatisms. Their main intent is to yoke the devotee's mind to the supreme-God. They are justified in not discussing trivialities.

Our object is exactly not yoking-to-God (yOgA), though it is not a taboo. We are trying to understand our scriptures through more realistic methods of perception, without endangering the main object of scriptures, which is intended for others.

In mahAbhAgavata krishNa traversed nearly 1400 km. in one night, using a carriage drawn by four horses, crossing hills and dales, penetrating through forests and wading through rivers and streams.

Compare this with vAlmiki rAmAyaNa. You can see it at my blog:click to see in vAlmiki rAmAyana, the demon king rAvaNa used an aircraft called pushpaka, which was driven by donkeys. He too traversed nearly 1500 km. (from river gOdAvari to Sri lanka) using the donkey-cart, but travelling in air.

All this discussion, tempts me to think of two probabilities:--

1. vidarbha must have been physically very near to dvAraka, say a distance between 30 km. and 100 km. This, I believe is the normal distance which can be travelled by a swift-horse-cart in one night.

If vidarbha is to be very near to dvAraka, a) vidarbha must be in dvAraka, near sea-shore. In other-words, this vidarbha may not be the vidarbha of nAgpur. I understand that Anarta mentioned in 10/53/6 above is kuSasthali, an under-sea submerged place in Gujarat. If this info is true, vidarbha should also be in Gujarat, some 30-100km. from Anarta's sea-shore.


b) dvAraka must be very near to nAgpur-vidarbha. It may be anywhere near akOla or wardha in Eastern mahArashTra.

For a deeper research and study, the residents of Surat, BarODa, Diu-DAman, akOla, wArdha, nAgpur, have to help by studying their village-names, ancient forts, local legends etc. (To continue.)

Sunday, February 26, 2012

Should women suffer for Indra's sin?


SASvata kAma varENAmhas
turIyam jagruhu strIyaha
rajO rUpENa tAsv amho
mAsi mAsi pradrusyatE.

The chief of demy Gods Indra killed the demon Vritra, who was said to be a Brahmin. Killing a Brahmin was said to be a great sin. Indra wanted to distribute the burden of his sin to other.

Women were one of the recipients of the sin. There was a trade. Indra gave a boon of constant sexual desires for women. In exchange, women had to accept the painful monthly discharge as the sin.

We can wonder how the priests were able to create a cock and bull story, for a biological phenomenon like monthly menstruation.

Thursday, February 23, 2012

How about remaining poor?

Volume 10 - daSama skandha.
Chapter 81 - adhyAya 81.
Verses 21-23.

iti tac cintayann antaḥ
praapto niya-gṛhAntikam
sUry analendu-sankASair
vimAnaiḥ sarvato vṛitam
juṣṭam svaalankṛtaiḥ pumbhiḥ
strIbhiS ca hariNAkṣibhiḥ
kim idam kasya vA sthAnam
katham tad idam ity abhUt

SudAma (popular name: kucEla or a person with torn clothes) was a classmate of Krishna. He had a large family. Goaded by his wife, he came to Dwaraka. He was received well by Krishna, and ate the palmful of flat rice brought by SudAma. SudAma forgot to ask Krishna for wealth. Sudama, next morning, returned to his dilapidated home, thinking that Krishna didn't bestow him wealth, probably because he felt that Sudama will become arrogant with riches and forget Krishna.

Thinking thus, Sudama reached his home.
He, found in the place of his home, a number of palaces with fountains, gardens, cooing birds, lotuses, tulips, The palaces were glowing like sun, moon and the fire God. Well-dressed men and deer-eyed bejewelled ladies were adorning the home. SudAma started wondering: What is this? Whose place is this? How all this happened?

1. How about the poor belonging to castes other than Brahmins and Yadavas?

2. Every Brahmin cannot be a classmate of Krishna. How about the poor Brahmins of those days, who were not classmates of Krishna? It is like this: Everybody cannot be a classmate of Rahul Gandhi. Rahul Gandhi can probably help one or two classmates of his, who were very close to him.

3. One thing is certain. During Krishna's rule, there were extremely poor persons like sudAma. Everybody was not prosperous, or at least equal.

4. The crux of the problem, is inequalities. Inequalities cannot be removed by raising classmate sentiments.

5. This problem existed even during Shri Rama's time. Pl. see my post at Click to see rAmAyanayb.blogspot.

Wednesday, June 01, 2011

Was Krishna a leader of ornament-pickers on battle-fields?


Lord Krishna is an incarnation of God depicted in Bhagavata. He is the hero of the Bhagavata purana.

According to Canto 10, Chapter 50, Verse 4 of Bhagavata, Jaraasamdha the king of Magadha besieged the Capital of Madhura. It was ruled by Ugraseena, grand father of Krishna. Jarasamdha waged war with Krishna using 23 akshauhinis.
1 akshauhini = 1,09,350 infantry (foot soldiers);
65,610 cavalry with horsemen on them;
21,870 elephants with mahouts on them;
21,870 chariots and charioteers
23 akshauhinis x 218,700 = 5,030,100 (humans, animals not counted).

Jarasamdha and Krishna fought 17 times, everytime with 23 akshauhinis.
17 x 5,030,100 = 85,511,700 people.
According to Bhagavata, Krishna and Balarama killed all these people.

What would have been the population of India 2500 to 5000 years back (period of Maha Bharata and Krishna under dispute) ? Did Krishna kill all the Indians?

Hundreds of rivers of blood flowed. How many? What a grotesque description!

Quote: Verse 40 from the same book, same chapter.

aayodhana-gatam vittam
anantam vī`ra-bhu`ṣhaṇ`am
yadu-ra`jaaya tat sarvam
a`hṛtam praadis`at prabhuḥ.

Krishna presented to UgrasEna (the Yadu king) all the wealth that had fallen on the battlefield (aayoodhana-gatam) - ornaments worn by the slain soldiers and knights.

More Comments
British Kings and Queens encouraged the European colonialists and pirates to go on rampaging adventures and expeditions, and collected royal shares in the collections brought back. The Kohinoor Diamond, The Peacock Throne, The Sword of Tippu Sultan, The Serangapatam Diamond, The Star of Africa, Edward's Sapphire,The Timur Ruby, etc. are some examples of the ornament-picking.

The Arab, Turkish, Moghul and other Islamic Invaders from the Northwest encouraged their soldiers to pick gold, silver and gems on battle-fields (from injured persons and dead bodies) and gave them shares when they submitted the collections to the Chief.

Pillaging is thus a regal splendour.

Monday, November 15, 2010

#012 Should we need couches to lie down?

My mother tongue is Telugu. Nearly 80 million people speak it. Bammera Potana is a poet of 15th Century A.D. He translated the Bhagavata Purana of Vyasa ,
from Sanskrit to Telugu , with the title 'Andhra Mahaa Bhaagavatam . ' The book used to be a household name in Andhra Pradesh. I translate below a verse from the book.

Kamaniiya bhuumi bhaagamulu leekunnavee ,
pad`i yund`ut`aku duudi parupuleela?
Sahajambulagu karaanjalulu leekunnavee ,
bhoojana bhaajana punjameela?
Valkalaajinakus`aaval`ulu leekunnavee,
kat`t`a dukuula sanghambu leela?
Konakoni vasiyimpa guhalu leekunnavee,
praasaada saudhaadi pat`ala meela?

Phala rasaadulu kuriyavee paadapamulu ?
Svaadu jalamula nund`avee sakala nadulu ?
Posaga bhikshamu vet`t`aree pun`ya satulu ?
Dhana madaandhula koluveela , taapasulaku ?

Cīraaṇi kim pathi na santi
dis`anti bhikṣaaḿ
Naivaanghripaaḥ para-bhṛitaḥ
sarito apy asuuṣyan
Ruddhaa guhaaḥ kim
ajito vati nopasannaan
Kasmād bhajanti kavayo
dhana-durmadaandhaan .

Note: Potana made some changes and improved on the original verses. The phrases used are also very aesthetic. Potana's translation is more elaborate. He does not, somehow, mention about the 'ajita' and 'upasanna' (unconquerable God protecting the surrendered).

Why do we need cotton couches , when we have portions of earth , to lie down on ?

Why do we need great menus , and heaps of cutlery and vessels to eat in , when we have our open fists ?
Why do we need thin silk wardrobes , when we have jute

clothes and deer skins to wear ?
Why do we need great complexes of mansions , when we have caves to live in ?
Won't trees shower fruits with succulent juices ?
Won't rivers flow with sweet waters ?
Won't virtuous women bestow alms ?
Why should austere persons take up the service of the rich blind from wealth?

The above compare-and-and contrasts , though were the expressions of S`uka Yogi to the King Parikshit, I feel that these were the personal reflections of Poet Potana himself, who refused to serve in the court of the 15th Century King "Sarvagna Singa Bhuupaala".

Please visit , , if you wish to read similar Sanskrit verses in Roman Script.

Sunday, October 04, 2009



jitvaa paŕaam dhanaḿ sarvaḿ sastriiḱam vajra-paaṇ`ayee
pratyayacchat sa raajarsḥir iti naamabhir aahṛtaḥa.
ENGLISH: After conquering the enemies, (Puranjaya) gave away the enemies' riches along with their wives to the God of Thunderbolt (Indra).
The King Ambarisha performed many horse sacrifices and satisfied the Supreme God. The sacrifices were grand, well equiped and full of gifts to priests. The feasts were led by sages Vasisht`a, Asita and Gautama.

VERSE NO. 9-4-22
Ijee as`vameedhair adhiyagnam Iis`varam
mahaa vibhuutyoopacitaamga daksḥiṇaạha
tatair Vasiṣt`ha Asita Gautamaadibhir
dhanyani abhisrootam asau sarasvatiim.

QUESTIONS 1) Is the Godhead fond of flesh of horses? 2) In the preceding verses, the king Ambarisha was said to be a great devotee of Lord Vishnu, taking pleasure only in smelling the flavors of Tulsi (an aromatic plant considered sacred by Hindus). In horse sacrifices, the king has to smell the fumes of burning fat of the horse. 3) Why Lord Siva (a God equal to Lord Vishnu among the trinity) was relegated to be entitled to just the remnants (left overs) of the sacrifices (Evidence verse No.9/4/8 yagna vastu gataḿ sarvam ucchiṣhṭ`am rịṣhayahạ kvacit,
cakrur hi bhaagaḿ rudraaya sa devaḥ sarvam arhati--LORD SIVA IS ENTITLED TO THE LEFT OVERS). (Note: According to Valmiki Ramayana 1/61/8, Ambarisha performed a human sacrifice. It said that Visvamitra participated in the sacrifice. In Bhagavata we have three sages Vasisht`a, Asita, Gautama. This makes four adding Visvaamitra.). This also adds additional meaning that the Godhead himself was fond of human sacrifices.


CONTEXT: Part 9, Chapter 7, Verses 7 to 26 (i.e. 20 verses) narrate the story of Harischandra. Briefly: King Harischandra was the great grandfather of Rama. He did not have children. He approached Rain God (Varun`a) for boon of a son. Foolishly he promised the Rain God, that he would offer the tobeborn son in sacrifice to the Rain God. The Rain God okayed.

After the son is born, the Rain God approached the king for the sacrifice of the infant. Name of the baby: Rohita. The king wanted 10 days time stating that an animal becomes fit for sacrifice after 10 days.
Rain God came after 10 days. This time, the king said that the infant will be fit for sacrifice only after it gets its teeth. He asked the Rain God to come after the child gets teeth.

RG came after the child got teeth. This time, the king postponed stating that the teeth should fall. Then only the boy will be fit for sacrifice.

RG came after Rohita's teeth had fallen. This time, the king wanted new teeth to grow. Then only Rohit will be fit for sacrifice.

RG came after Rohit got his teeth. This time king's excuse: A warrior should become fit to defend himself. Then only he will be fit for a sacrifice. The waiting story went on.

Now Rohit understood that his father was postponing the sacrifice deliberately with some excuse or other. Understanding that he should save his life, Rohit went to forests.

Owing to the wrath of the Rain God, the king started suffering from dropsy. Rohit came to know about it. He wanted to return immediately, but the God of Heaven "Indra" persuaded him to go on a pilgrimage and Rohit spent five years on pilgrimages.
ṣaṣht`̣haam samvatsaram tatra caritvaa rohitahạ puriim
upavrajann Ajiigartaad akriiṇaan
madhyamaḿ sutam s`unaḥs`eephaam
pas`uum pitree pradaaya samavandata.
At the end of the sixth year Rohit returned to his father. Rohit bought one youth called "Sunahs`eepha" as the animal for sacrifice, from his father Ajigarta and gave to the king.
tataha puruṣha-meedheena Haris`candroo mahaa-yas`ahạ
muktoodaroo 'yajad devaan varunạadiin mahat-kathaḥa
ENGLISH: By sacrificing the human, Harischandra (here see the adjective used to describe Harischandra: "Great famed"), pleased the Rain God and freed himself from dropsy.
VERSE 22: SANSKRIT: Vis`vaamitroo abhavat tasmin hootaa ca adhvaryur aatmavaan
Jamadagnir abhuud brahmaa Vasiṣhṭ`hoo Ayasyaḥa saama-gaḥa.
ENGLISH: In the sacrifice, Vis`vaamitra acted as OBLATOR (Priest who pours clarified butter and human flesh into the pyre), Jamadagni acted as CHANTER of Yajurveeda mantras, Vasisht`ha acted as CHIEF PRIEST, and Agastya acted as "SINGER" of Vedic hymns.
For all sacrifices (whether human or horse or bulls or aquarian or bird or other animals), the four leaders i.e. CHIEF PRIEST, OBLATOR, CHANTER, and SINGER are necessary. PRESUMPTION: When an animal is sacrificed in the fire, the resultant cooked flesh and ash, is taken as divine gift food ("prasaad") eaten by all present. COMMENTs: Now what is the difference between Ikshavaku Kings and Cannibals?
Were sages and priests of those days, cannibals?



Lord Krishna is an incarnation of God depicted in Bhagavata. He is the hero of the Bhagavata purana. Ref:

According to Canto 10, Chapter 50, Verse 4 of Bhagavata, Jaraasamdha the king of Magadha besieged the Capital of Madhura. It was ruled by Ugraseena, grand father of Krishna. Jarasamdha waged war with Krishna using 23 akshauhinis.
1 akshauhini = 1,09,350 infantry (foot soldiers);
65,610 cavalry with horsemen on them;
21,870 elephants with mahouts on them;
21,870 chariots and charioteers
23 akshauhinis x 218,700 = 5,030,100 (humans, animals not counted).

Jarasamdha and Krishna fought 17 times, everytime with 23 akshauhinis.
17 x 5,030,100 = 85,511,700 people.
According to Bhagavata, Krishna and Balarama killed all these people.
What would have been the population of India 2500 to 5000 years back (period of Maha Bharata and Krishna under dispute) ? Did Krishna kill all the Indians?
Hundreds of rivers of blood flowed. How many? What a grotesque description!
Quote: Verse 40 from the same book, same chapter, same website:
"Lord Krishna then presented to the Yadu king all the wealth that had fallen on the battlefield - namely, the countless ornaments of the dead warriors. "
This shows that there was a custom of knights collecting the gold and precious ornaments of slain soldiers and presenting to the kings who filled their coffers with the booty.

Heroes or pillagers or Lords!



s'us'ruushanam dvija gavaam devaanaam ca apy amaayayaa
tatra labdheena santooshaha, s'uudra-prakritayas tv imaaha.


suudra-vruttim bhajeed vais'yaha, s'uudraha kaaru-katha-kriyaam
kricchraan muktoo na garhyeena vruttim lipseeta karmanaa.

Serving the Priests, cows, Gods, without cheating and being happy with whatever he gets -- these are the duties of a Suudra.

A fourth caste person who cannot find a master to serve, can overcome his difficult situation by weaving baskets and straw mats. Again they should revert back to their original occupations after normalcy occurs. (That means a fourth caste person should find a master and serve again).
CRITICAL REMARKS: Who stipulated these duties? Did Krishna stipulate? Or the priests stipulated?